>From: "Kevin Brady" email@example.com
>> >are subjected to Sec Checking under duress.
They CANNOT LEAVE.
>> What you describe might be true of some people's RPF experience, (...) I believe the bulk of RPF staff have remained due to moral constraints and not physical restraint
>Where would these people go?
The police, if necessary, who can assist them on a timely basis in reclaiming
any property they have in the custody of the church facility where they berth .
You know the police are always being called in to handle "domestic
where one of the parties is facing a "where do I go to live" problem,
retrieve some personal property from the residence, etc. THOSE people mostly
somehow make out, and there are tons and tons of domestic dispute cases like
this all the time. RPF leaving isn't harder than this at worst.
>They have no money, no clothes, no food, and all of their friends are organization members.
Modernly many Sea Org members are increasingly woven into a matrix of social
resources that might be dominated by other Scientologists, so some of them might have only organization friends or friends loyal to the organization.
Many others have the traditional Scientologist's relationship with family and
friends which can be anti-Scientological or turn so in a heartbeat. Most SO
leavers I've talked to had resources for departure not only among antiScieno
friends or family but *within* the ranks of Scientologists in good standing,
including within fellow SO staff member ranks. The pravda that no SO staff
person would help another SO staff person depart hastily or fund/assist them
for this purpose
is just that: pravda. The image of the robot zombies over on the other side is
largely that: image. There are probably examples of both indifference or cruel
treatment by the remaining staff to the leaver as well as generosity in a
complete survey of the leaving process.
This lack of resources is a problem for departure, but not something that keeps
a person in "slave labor camp" conditions!!! Properly assessed, an RPF
at a Sea Org facility might have some members who lack resources that would be
desirable to start fresh if they simply walk away, but that doesn't explain why
they continue to live in "slave labor camps", as the a.r.s. pravda
puts it. The rest of the RPF members have the resources on the outside to
leave and resume a new life, if they are committed to that.
>The SO specializes in hard-selling the idealist which
volunteer for service, totally unwitting about the deception and fraud they are subjecting themselves to.
Agree, except that what constitutes deception and fraud is partially a
subjective matter in many cases.
>I have never heard of gang-bang sec-checks on Class IV
Hells bells I was *gang banged* in a mere mission early on in my Scientology
Generally I see religious groups that are dogmatic and high-demand, and even
mere therapy groups in some instances, using multiple confronting parties and
demands for confession. The difference between some AA meetings and
Scientology gang bang sec checking is a matter of topic and degree. The Bible
says you go with several other Christians to confront the wayward one, e.g.
People who view matters as being religious, as of ultimate importance,
generally "gang up" on other members they consider wayward and put the
and choice to be made by the wayward member to them bluntly. It's a question
of whether you truly believe the religion or not that has to be decided, and if
so how belief must manifest.
Gang banging is a gift in disguise. You get to examine, by being put under
great pressure, just how valuable this belief structure and affiliation is to
you, something that an easy going demand for internal loyalty might omit. If
you decide to stay you do so with possible impediments removed from
participation and commitment as you have less to hide afterwards, but if you
decide to leave you have something to resent deeply and fuel that departure
Gang banging ain't fun to be subject to, but it isn't what made me eventually
leave and being subject to it surely didn't reduce my ability to assess where I
wanted to go, where the Church seemed to be going, and act rationally based on
the yawning gap between these when the time came.
I'm joining the <<yawn>> conspiracy, you see, here.
>>Consent eliminates violation.
>Consent given under fraudulent claims and misrepresentation of the actual situation?
It becomes rapidly apparent to the SO member when they enlist what the
situation they will live and work in is like. Unless we are confining
ourselves to people who route onto the RPF before finishing the EPF (do such
people even exist???) this isn't really an effective vitiation of consent.
>The real reason an SO member doesn't leave isn't because he is necessarily afraid of reprisal, but because he is afraid he would have to admit that he had slid down a slippery slope of increasingly betraying his own internal compass, and mortgaged his awareness to the "greater good" of scientology INTERNATIONAL,
which he is continually lied to about.
I agree. As this description indicates there is no brainwashing going on, as
people retain their ability to assess this sort of thing and act independently
and rationally according to their own, indwelling values. Before they reach
that decision to leave they sort through a certain amount of deception and
false claims that may form part of the basis of their prior commitment, and
weigh just how important it is to them to compromise on some points to prevail
in a common struggle to win on others. Exactly what those deceptions and false
claims are may well be very very different for different people, subjectively
though, and exactly how much sleaziness by one's own side is going to be
tolerated is also idiosyncratic too often enough.
>I am sorry if I seem impatient. There is more to this story, for me (can you smell the bypassed charge?)
Been there, mostly. But for those I left behind, and they are not trivial in
number, I marvel that they still remain committed to what they are committed to
despite adversity. Is there more to their story? They have made hard choices,
and perhaps I feel they choose the wrong side of things, but it was their
choice to make. I believe nonsense about calling SO RPFs "slave labor
is part of a campaign to deny these people their chosen way of life, which is
why I am in this thread. I personally do not think highly of that as a way of
life, but do not see it as my role to join in efforts to deprive them of it
through societal pressure born of smear campaigns.
We can never, any of us, completely walk in someone elses shoes. They have to
decide their own religious destiny, even if we think it is a stupid one, and
confine ourselves to protesting actual harms inflicted on others not choosing
that way of life. The a.r.s. set too often wishes to deny the power of choice
to others with its overblown rhetoric about "slave labor camps",
":brainwashing", and other such nonsense.