>Diane Richardson wrote:
>> If you don't believe the evidence I've posted here, there's a
simple test you can do for yourself to see if the brainwashing/mind
control hypothesis is accepted -- find a DSM-IV and look up what it says about cult mind control. You won't find anything -- not a word.
>You're wrong here, Diane. Here is a direct quote
from DSM IV under "Dissociative Disorders" 300.15 Dissociative Disorder Not
Otherwise Specified. Check it out for yourself. It says (DSM IV p. 232 Desk Reference): "3. States of dissociation that occur in individuals who have
been subjected to periods of prolonged and intense coecive persuasion
(e.g., brainwashing, thought reform, or indoctrination while captive)."
>Note the use of the words
"brainwashing" and "thought reform" that you seem to think have been deleted.
But where's the word "cult", Monica? I was asking about what the
DSM-IV says about CULT MIND CONTROL What you quote here is limited
specifically to those being held "captive."
Why the word "captive," Monica? Where's the word
Were you holding people in prison as you audited them? Were public
Scientologists[tm] you audited held against their wills behind bars?
I don't think so.
Compare the DSM-IV entry to what was stated in DSM-III under
"trance-like states, derealization accompanied by depersonalization,
and those non-prolonged dissociative states that may occur in persons
who have been subjected to periods of prolonged and intensive coercive
persuasion (brainwashing, thought reform, and indoctrincation while
the captive of terrorists or cultists)."
NOTE, Monica, deletion of the word "cultists" from the current
diagnostic criteria. Why do you suppose that word was deleted? A
>> If you can locate a copy of the DSM-III,
you'll find the classification "Other Dissociative Disorders" includes
"trance-like states . . . . while the captive of terrorists or cultists."
That "disorder" is no longer recognized by the APA.
>See my quote above, from DSM IV. that I have
sitting here right in front of me. If you don't believe me check it out for yourself.
Monica, I "checked it out" long before I posted my statement. I
checked out the DSM-III criteria. I noted the difference. I noted
the deliberate deletion of the word "cultist," which limits the
diagnosis to those being held in captivity.
I am also familiar with the discussion that occurred while the DSM-IV
criteria were being formulated. Although I can understand why you are
so intent on misrepresenting this matter (after all, you have a
financial interest in maintaining public belief in
I'm not at all sure why you believe I'm so easily duped.
Perhaps you don't care whether you convince me or not. I imagine
you're more interested in the larger audience -- all those poor
victims just waiting for you to rescue them from their mental illness
-- at a pretty good price (do you charge $1,000 a day like Hassan? or
do you do it cut-rate?)
Hey, I'm just "telling it like is," Monica. If you believe you
the right to condemn Jeffrey Hadden as a "moral coward" because
may have accepted payment for one declaration, I can apply that same
criticism to you!
>> If you'd like to continue your own
investigation of this matter, obtain a copy of the Merck Manual, a major reference for health professionals. Try to find any references to cult-induced
disorders in that book.
>It is mentioned in Kaplan & Saddock's latest
edition of "Synopsis of Psychiatry" which is one of the most widely-used and respected
textbooks on psychiatry & DSM IV. They have a whole section on cults and on brainwashing under "Religious or Spiritual Problem" (7th
801). The section entitled "Brainwashing" states:
I'll check out the entire entry in their Comprehensive Textbook of
Psychiatry tomorrow, Monica, and check to see what you've left out.
>"First practiced by the Chinese Communists
on American prisoners in the Korean war, brainwashing is the deliberate creation of culture shock.
A condition of isolation, alienation and intimidation is developed for
the express purpose of assaulting ego strengths and leaving the person to
be brainwashed vulnerable to the imposition of alient ideas and behavior that would usually be rejected. Brainwashing relies on both mental and
physical coercion. All people are vulnerable to brainwashing if
they are exposed to it for a sufficient length of time, if they are alone
and without support, and if they are without hope of escape from
the situation." (Kaplan & Saddock, p. 801)
Where's the mention of "cult mind control," Monica? I'm waiting.
Did you forget to type in that part?
Or are you now admitting that "brainwashing" is not recognized
cult phenomenon? I'm not quite sure what you're trying to say. Are
you saying that cult members are not brainwashed, or are you saying
that cult members were held prisoners against their will?
>Under "Cults", the Kaplan &
Saddock say: "Cults are charismatic groups that can affect participants in
adverse ways, which may eventually bring them into contact with the mental health care system. Cults are characterized by an intensely held
belief system and ideology that are imposed on their members' freedom of
choice to leave the group, and by a profound influence on the members' behavior" (Kaplan & Saddock, p. 801)
Where's the discussion of "cult mind control," Monica? I'm still
waiting. . . .
>Another excerpt on the same page: "Cults are invariably led by charismatic personalities, who are
often ruthless in their quest for financial, sexual, and power gains and in their insistence on conformity to the cult's ideological belief
system, which may have strong religious or quasireligious overtones. [this
next part is really going to surprise you, Diane] Exit therapy has been developed to guide cult members out of the group, provided their lingering emotional ties to persons outside the cult can be
I'm still waiting for that discussion of "cult mind control,"
Where is it? Where's the commentary on the use of "brainwashing/mind
control/thought reform" techniques by cults?
>This textbook has nothing to do with AFF or any other anti-cult organization. Here is a very well respected and accepted source,
Kaplan & Saddock that does indeed, not only recognize the cult phenomenon
Where does it mention the cult phenomenon of mind control?
>also recognized exit counselling!
But where does it talk about an exit counselor combatting cult mind
control (to use Steve Hassan's phrase)? You haven't quoted anything
about that, Monica.
>You have apparently been blinded by your own preconceived ideas and selectively quoting only the
references that support them.
No indeed I have not, Monica. I used to refer to Kaplan and Sadock
(the Comprehensive Textbook, however, not the condensation/study guide
you're quoting from) almost daily while I was battling it out with
Cory Brennan over her anti-psych stuff. I remember reading that
section quite well, and I seem to think you may have left out certain
paragraphs you'd rather not admit exist. I'll check tomorrow and get
back to you on it.
>> There's nothing hysterical about my claims. I have posted several excerpts from papers debunking the mind control myth. I have
many, many others, which I'll be glad to post as long as you agree to
hold up your end of the bargain and read and comment upon them.
>You are posting very selectively only the
passages that support your point of view and ignoring others.
If that's your belief Monica, then be my guest. Post material that
supports Margaret Singer's "mind control" theory.
What's keeping you? You certainly haven't done that yet.