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Alternative Charlemagne Award ARS Reactions


 

For weeks critics have been promoting the Alternative Charlemagne Award in ARS, boasting about Minton receiving it and asking posters to send in their support for his candidature – notwithstanding the fact that the award was a bogus award, created by a bogus « Human Rights » group, steered by a bogus committee made of nobody else than a bunch of anti-cultists and ARSians.

Cornelius Krasel was the first to express concern about the true nature of this prize:

 

Usenet post from the newsgroup alt.religion.scientology.

Source: Bob Minton gets Human Rights Award in Germany

 

 

Message-ID:<c73jg8.enk.ln@wpxx02.toxi.uni-wuerzburg.de>

I have no evidence for my allegation, but it appears to me that the "European-American citizens committee for human rights and religious freedom in the USA" is as much a front group for anti-cultists as Narconon is a front group for Scientology. Therefore, the prize is rather worthless. Imagine Hubbard having received a prize from Narconon for his discoveries on drug addiction - everybody would start pointing out that this doesn't mean anything. The same seems to hold true for this "prize".

Joe Cisar, the « Vietnam veteran » who, together with other ARSians was part of the bogus committee, is offended that his hero, Bob Minton, gets compared to Hubbard, the devil incarnated.

 In a long post, he indeavors to defend his award by bundling together mindless comments made against Minton by Scientologists with genuine concern on the part of some critics regarding the validity of such a prize, then condemns all of these with the same brush, labeling them "cult supporters", "anti-critics" and "anti-mintonista", who are motivated by nothing but hate and are using "black propaganda" to try and discredit the prize.

Cornelius Krasel seems rather exasperated by this attitude, and he hints about the fact that it isn’t the first time he comes across such a behavior in ARS:

Usenet post from the newsgroup alt.religion.scientology.

Message-ID:<What to look for when dealing with Scientology

 

 

Message-ID:<5u1pg8.to2.ln@wpxx02.toxi.uni-wuerzburg.de>

Maybe it is indeed time to leave a.r.s. for good - after all, it is unfortunate to see that one may have left Scientology but is still stuck in the "us-versus-them" mindset.

--Cornelius ("cult supporter" according to Joe Cisar).

But Joe Cisar, the « Vietnam veteran », persists and signs. In another hilarious post named «  Attack of the Anti-Mintonistas », he writes:

Usenet post from the newsgroup alt.religion.scientology.

Source: Attack of the Anti-Mintonistas

 

 

Message-ID:<Pine.LNX.3.96.1000528065424.134A-100000@darkstar.zippy>

[…]

if someone you hate receives recognition from a group you despise, you are still normally able to get over your own hatred and resentment long enough to say, "even though that is a person I hate and a group I despise, I acknowledge that people are not animals, but are capable of appreciation"

... unless you have been programmed to act in the unthinking mean-spiritedness of war.

[…]

You have cult members on this news group who are equating Bob Minton with Ron Hubbard and who call themselves "critics."

[…]

[The award] shows the cult for what it is

[yes, it does – anti-cult loonies are shown in full light for what they are with this one.]

Speaking of showing cults up for what they are, look at a secondary benefit of the award: cultists are attacking something that differentiates people from being animals - appreciation.

 A-dog-wagger-KarenPickel-clr.gif (11546 bytes)

My dog is waging his tail at my feet. Do you think he shows me appreciation ? Or maybe he isn’t an animal, after all.. Mmm.. Yeah, that’s it ! It’s always what I thought anyway. So…

Oh well.. Fact is, I have nothing against anti-cultists showing their appreciation to their own peers. Especially not when they are American Millionaires... But setting up a bogus « Human Right » groups, tabbing on the notoriety of the real Charlemagne price as well picking up the idea of the real alternative nobel price, and doing nothing else but attributing a price to themselves is rather, er.. rather… dishonest. What. And ridiculous too.

More amusing posts from ARS

Thomas Gandow

After having unsuccessfully tried to argue that his own front group is different than the cult front groups, Thomas Gandow manages to find a justification nevertheless – and all of a sudden, one of the main focus of criticism anticultists have pressed on for years against cults has become O-K! That is… when *they* are the one doing it:

Usenet post from the newsgroup alt.religion.scientology.

Source: Bob Minton gets Human Rights Award in Germany

 

 

Message-ID:<392F049A.68AB3440@is.in-berlin.de>

May be that you are right and it really is a front group: But only in that sense, that the defense of human rights and dignity puts you in the frontline between Human dignity and Scientology.

Replace "Scientology" by "psychiatry" in the sentence above and you could use the statement just as it is in a flier supporting CCHR.

Nor is it pretentious, according to Gandow, to compare the pseudo-award to the real Charlemagne Award. President Clinton (who will receive the real award) is nothing but a "well known Scientology supporter", while Bob Minton!!! Bob Minton is THE courageous citizen fighting for freeedommmm!

Usenet post from the newsgroup alt.religion.scientology.

Source: What to look for when dealing with Scientology

 

 

Message-ID:<3931AD96.3CDA8462@is.in-berlin.de>

Pretentious?
The human rights award of our committee (Alternative Charlemagne Award 2000) is not associated to the "Aachen Charlemagne Prize" in general, but has to do with the prizewinner 2000: Bill Clinton, a well known Scientology Helper. Should or could he therefore really be praised as a role model for European Unity? He is certainly not, and Bob Minton as a courageous citizen, who fights i.a. for freedom of information, certainly is.

Arnie Lerma

Arnie Lerma adds a most relevant point to this already "compeling" argument:

Usenet post from the newsgroup alt.religion.scientology.

Source: Bob Minton gets Human Rights Award in Germany

 

 

Message-ID:<8gski3$dqd@edrn.newsguy.com>

Then you have no problem at all about Bill Clinton being on the phone with senate armed services committe chairman, Senator Dick Armey discussing sending U.S. soldiers to Mogadishu while monica was on her hands and knees giving him a blow job?

As Diane Richardson pointed out, Lerma seems to say that Clinton is really short...

Lerma also, naturally, supports Joe Cisar in calling those who dare question the validity of the prize "cult supporters". Expressing distrust against critics, no matter how ridiculous their claim, is enough to put you on the enemic camp. Why bother making appropriate distinctions ?

Usenet post from the newsgroup alt.religion.scientology.

Source:  Caution: Cult War Pigs at work, was: Bob Minton gets Human Rights , Award in Germany

 

 

Message-ID:<8grufq$1mm5@edrn.newsguy.com>

There is no need to categorize folks that are either Scientologists, those that hide being Scientologists, whores for Scientology, and just run of the mill nutballs.

Lerma seems to speak of himself here, as he was a Scientologist as well as a "whore for Scientology", and is usually thought of by reasonable onlookers as a certifiable run of the mill nutballs.

Minton's Moral Character

In addition of pointing to flagrant innacuracies in Gandow's and Tilman Hausherr's knowledge of the U.S. legislative system, as well as pointing to the fact that Minton has done nothing to further European unification (the purpose of the Charlemagne award in the first place), Diane Richardson also challenges the argument that Bob Minton is more deserving of the award for his moral character than Clinton:

Usenet post from the newsgroup alt.religion.scientology.

Message-ID:<Bob Minton gets Human Rights Award in Germany

 

 

Message-ID:<393318dd.2894173@enews.newsguy.com>

What is not at all clear is how awarding a bogus "prize" to a person who flagrantly publicizes his adultery, offends women with his obscene remarks, and shows absolutely no regard for humanity in any form is somehow supposed to be considered a role model.  Perhaps those who profess Christianity in Germany have a different take on Christian values.  Is that it?

As a minister of the gospel can you honestly encourage others to take as a role model a man who has made the following comments (and others like them) to women who have done him no harm?

The man [appearing as "Mittens" in the presence of numerous witnesses] has stated:

<Mittens> Lick the dog shit form my shows you fucking cult whore

<Mittens> Deana shut the fuck up you foul bitch

<Mittens> Karl Kluge can suck my asshole

<Mittens> Diane, I fuck you in the ear and puke on your pock marked face you slut

<Mittens> Suck my dog shit Deana

<Mittens> Diane but i keep you ass my ass licker too

<Mittens> innie/vagina/cunt/field of Venus is an occassionally useful description of the four horsewomen

<Mittens> if my ear were a cunt I could fuck it!

<Mittens> Whose cock was so long he could suck it

<barb> Some people just cant seem to ignore bob
<Mittens> Barb, they worship me
<barb> I know. they wish they WERE you

<Mittens> fuck off Diane she won't speak to a cunt like you

<Mittens> Darnitrol you stupid cocksucker Don't cum back

<Mittens> Diane lick the dog shit off of my boots

<Mittens> Diane you suck the cock of your principles

<Mittens> bivalve and Diane suck the cock of each others principles

<Mittens> well guys, i'm gonna leave you in peace while I go fuck some OSA whores :-)

Is this the kind of man you want your children to grow up imitating? Is this the kind of language you preach in your pulpit?  Is this the spirit you wish the world to embrace and honor?

Denial Tactics

Something I have often observed among critics (but I guess this is just a general human characteristic) is that when their position becomes really undefensible, they all of a sudden proclaim it was nothing but a joke. Sarcasm! "Don’t you have any sense of humor at all?"

This is exactly what Klaus Bloemker does – and while at it, he also manages to put all the blame on Scn:

Usenet post from the newsgroup alt.religion.scientology.

Source: Bob Minton gets Human Rights Award in Germany

 

 

Message-ID:<8gmt84$s59$1@nnrp1.deja.com>

To me, this "Alternative Charlemagne Award" and the committee's name have a satirical ring. It's the ring of the 60s when there was an "Alternative Peace Prize" at the International Frankfurt Bookfair, alternative to the official one awarded by the German Booksellers Association. Nobody took that alternative freak prize seriously, except the freaks.

In the case of the Charlemagne thing, the Scientologists seem to be the freaks to take the award seriously. So, when they take something seriously, they act seriously - and then the reaction on them will be serious. They create their own deadly reality. If this is the outcome of the alternative award - OK.

Building up a strawman is also one of the favorite deflection tactic of critics – turn the opposition’s argument into something else than what it is, then valliantly burn it down:

Usenet post from the newsgroup alt.religion.scientology.

Source: Bob Minton gets Human Rights Award in Germany

Lronscam <ronsscam@aol.com>

 

Message-ID:<siuehbgp5pj91@news.supernews.com>

So the truth is revealed. Bob Minton is a Scn'gy terrorist acting like a critic of Scn'gy, acting like a Scn'gy terrorist, acting like a critic of Scn'gy, acting like he's acting......

Is this the war of propaganda?

When everything else fails, use innuendoes. Hint of hidden support, something that would sustain your case without you having to prove squat:

Usenet post from the newsgroup alt.religion.scientology.

Source: Attack of the Anti-Mintonistas

Joe's Garage <swatron@xenu.net>

 

Message-ID:<Pine.LNX.3.96.1000528172438.114B-100000@darkstar.zippy>

Besides, you never know what other kind of people have supported the Alternative Charlemagne Award to Bob Minton. They might be members of Parliament or something. The list can be seen at the award site in my sig file. There is also an e-mail address at the site if you want your name included. If it doesn't work, e-mail me.

The list can be seen alright – it is made up for the most part of known ars posters. Of course some may be members of Parliament, ya know.. who can tell. And frankly, who cares?

More of Joe Cisar

Back when he was still peddling up the award as a genuine award, Joe Cisar managed to accuse Scn of « marketing, PR and  staged event" in the same paragraph as the one where he promoted his pseudo-award.

 Simply prophetic!

Usenet post from the newsgroup alt.religion.scientology.

Source: Human Rights Award for Bob Minton

 

 

Message-ID:<Pine.LNX.3.96.1000509220153.112D-100000@darkstar.zippy>

Scientology is a totalist organization which has refined "do you still beat your wife" type questions, marketing, PR and staged events into a black art. Victims of Scientology and their relatives, however, will be happy to hear that one of the most active supporters of their cause, Bob Minton, will be receiving a human rights award for his efforts on their behalf.

Critics have, once more, stooped down to the same tactic they criticize the cult over. However, while the Scientology front groups occassonally do something useful, the one staged by critics has no other purpose than to attribute a bogus prize to themselves.

How more pathetic can you get?

I'll tell you - by comming up with utterly ridiculous justification for it!

11407462.jpg (11890 bytes)

* Bernie raising his glass to celebrate Minton’s world-wide recognition, as authenticated by the glorious Alternative Charlemagne AwardReport

Bob minton Recieves the Alternative Charlemagne award  -  ARS ReactionU.S.Human Rights Report



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Disclaimer :

This web site is NOT created by a Scientologist. It is created by a Scientology EX-MEMBER who is critical of Scientology. However, this ex-member is ALSO critical of the anti-Scientology movement. This does not make him a Scientologist, nor a defender of Scientology.

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